Kelly connects with James Cordova, a Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Clark University. His new book is “The Mindful Path to Intimacy: Cultivating a Deeper Connection with Your Partner.”

A thing that really resonated for me in the book is the idea that of course we are going to harm our partner, we ‘re so close to them. 

“You know, for me, it is the way in which I feel and I think I see in other relationships. It’s how we resolve the porcupine’s dilemma, right? The fact that we are both sensitive and vulnerable and also prickly, right? And just humans. And the closer that we get to each other, the more vulnerable we are to each other. And staying inside of that vulnerable space, you know, is a practice and it requires an incredible amount of skill both to be able to navigate the ways in which we do these little these, you know, we create these little harms in our partner that are just like we’re stepping on each other’s toes. Sometimes it’s not a big deal, sometimes it’s a bigger deal. And how we receive those little toe steps, right? Those little harms and staying inside of Quill’s distance, which is how I think of that intimate space is so challenging that I think for many, if not most couples, the compromise that they make is to stay as close as they can, but just outside of Quill’s distance so that they’re close, but not too close.” 

Check me on this, but even though this book is about intimate relationships such as marriage – the science works for all of your relationships. 

“No, no, absolutely. This is what we know from gobs of research is that the more deeply intimate relationships, the closer relationships that we have, the wider that network of closer relationships is, the healthier we are, the more resilient we are to all of the slings and arrows of what it’s like to be a human being through illness, old age, the vagaries of life, right? So, developing this quality of trusting relationship with many people is essential to our emotional and psychological health.” 

I think a great benefit of this book is getting people to think about their relationship as a practice. 

“Right, right. Well, and so that in some ways, Kelly, you’re pointing at what is central to this book, right, which is this practice – that as much as we think about meditation, mindfulness, contemplative prayer as practices, this practice of dedicated, loving attention, it’s a practice.  And in like learning a language or learning how to play a musical instrument or dance, you can fall out of practice and get rusty at it, or you can stay in practice. And the more you practice, the better you get at it. But it’s not one of those things that’s an achievement – like I got an A plus in listening and then I got to go on with the rest of my life and never had to really try anymore, right? I just get to live resting on my laurels. You know, I think that’s the thing that I really want to communicate to couples through my work through this book is that that transforming the way we think about our relationships from something that you just achieve and then rest into to something that is a daily, even moment by moment practice.”